Posted: May 17, 2010 by Brett Kunkle in Etcetera

I recently had a conversation with Jim Wallace from about youth & apologetics.  Check it out.

  1. Sam says:

    Wow… I honestly don’t know where to begin. Let me first just say thank you. I believe it’s largely due to people like you and people who sympathize with and share your views that young people are generally abandoning religion at an ever growing pace. The way things are going, it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility that we will finally look back on religion with the same notion of absurdity as the idea of a flat earth within the next 50 years or so.

    Earlier in the podcast you had a rather humorous slip of the tongue while describing the services you provide at STR. I believe the direct quote was:
    “We tell them what to believe… erm… what we believe”
    You said this when talking about ‘training’ young people to be good apologists. Indeed, one could very well insert ‘deluding’ or ‘brainwashing’ in place of every occurrence of the word ‘training’ in this entire podcast and retain the exact same meaning.

    The fact of the matter is that neither you nor any other apologist can supply any piece of evidence that points to the existence of something supernatural, much less a supernatural being. Even if you could supply evidence for a supernatural being that created the Universe… you would still need further evidence to eliminate the possibility of all but one being (the christian god) out of the infinite set of possible supernatural beings in order to fully justify your belief as fact. Without such evidence your claim that christianity is the only true religion holds no weight… namely because your god is no more likely to be the ‘correct’ god than any other. In order to prove that only the christian god is the ‘correct’ god, you must necessarily reference the bible… an act that comes with its own set of problems.

    What intrinsic property of the bible makes it correct, and all other holy books false? You can’t say it’s because the bible is god’s word… god’s word cannot be the basis upon which you derive your belief in god! That’s circular reasoning. It can’t be because the bible is historically accurate. Both the story of Adam and Eve and the flood have blatant mythological undertones. There are talking snakes, sorcery and magic, faith healing, demons, and angels throughout the bible… none of which have ever been observed in modern times (or even since the supposed time of their existence).

    So in light of all this… what makes you think that you can tout your beliefs about god as an absolute fact of reality? Have you found the aforementioned evidences? No you haven’t… nor has anyone else. I have no problem with people believing whatever delusions they want to believe… it does become a problem though when these people try to assert their delusion as a fact of reality despite there being no evidence to support it and multiple lines of evidence against it. If these people (yes I’m talking to you) would come to grips with the fact that their belief in god rests purely on an unjustifiable blind faith, then there would be no problem.

    Instead we have you going on and on about how American children “are being trained in school with false ideas”. False ideas?! Don’t you mean ‘facts of reality that would almost certainly falsify religion in the mind of an impressionable young person if viewed objectively and without the polarizing lens of religion’? I mean come on. Do I need to spell it out for you? The reason young people are abandoning religion in droves is because, for the first time in history, knowledge is available to anyone, anywhere, any time. Knowledge is the mortal enemy of religion and those trying to propagate it, and our knowledge of the Universe has come to the point where religion can no longer field a legitimate argument for its own veracity. You’ve seen it yourself! The only way you can hope to retain these young people is to sufficiently brainwash them against the threatening aspects of the education they will receive before they receive it (evolution among other things). Even this will not work with the brighter ones.

    This is because your students (even your own children), in general, are smarter than you. An AP high school education today covers material over the spectrum of subjects that you probably didn’t see until your undergrad degree, if at all. Unlike you, a 36 year old man so set in your ways that you can’t even discern your own folly, these kids are objective observers. The only thing your ‘training’ accomplishes is the retardation of these kids’ potentials.

    In a way I feel for you… you, like many others from the older generations, have lived your life to this point believing in god, but with each passing year the evidence against that belief piles up and it becomes harder and harder for you to justify your belief to those around you. You don’t want to forsake this belief because that would mean you had been living a lie your entire life. The only option you have is to feign ignorance and plow ahead regardless of how foolish you may appear to the reasonable people of the world… or maybe I’m completely wrong and you really do actually believe all the stuff you say, in which case you need look no further than yourself to see why the more intelligent younger generations are recognizing religion as delusion.

    In any case I find the ‘service’ you provide at STR to be an egregious disservice to humanity. You are stifling the potential of our civilization simply because you either don’t want to admit you’re wrong, or are too ignorant to recognize it. Rest assured… you ARE lying to these kids when you tell them that evolution is false. Would Jesus want you to lie even if it was for ‘his glorification’? I don’t think so.

    Just some things to chew on, Kunkle. Maybe you’ll think twice about disadvantaging your own children by lying to them about the things they learn at school. If they enter university and are still championing creation or ID, they WILL be laughed at, embarrassed, and scorned for their ignorance if they make these views known in a public forum. I’ve seen it happen time and time at Texas A&M, and the student body here is mostly christian.

  2. Tee Ar says:

    Mr. Sam says,
    “There are talking snakes, sorcery and magic, faith healing, demons, and angels throughout the bible… none of which have ever been observed in modern times (or even since the supposed time of their existence).”

    “So in light of all this… what makes you think that you can tout your beliefs about god as an absolute fact of reality?”

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You are claiming an attribute of a deity, i.e., quasi-omniscience. Does Sam know so much about set X such that set Z does or did not exist in X?

    Demythologizing the Bible leaves the possiblity that its tales have bases in [prior] reality. Water pouring out of the valleys of Iran may have
    (says the History Channel’s speculation about a Flood)
    depressed the N. end of the Persian Gulf:
    2 river beds on each side there-of point to a spot S.E. of the S. end of the River.

    Adam & Eve
    (~10,000 years ago, according to Henry Morris @ the Institute for Creation Research […])
    have analogs in Y-chromosome Adam & Mitochondrial Eve, are both dated at ~50,000 years ago
    (-Hugh Ross, whose PhD in Astro-physics was conferred by the Univ. of Toronto, Canada),
    and so may have dated each other.

    What is evidence? The Law of Correspond[e]nce applies to Scien-tism & to History.

    Who are the reasonable people? Was Dr. Richard Lewontin reasonable (easily entreated) when he wrote in 1997, Jan., in the New York Review of Books that he & his clan must not allow a divine foot in the door?

    Mockery turned to threats of violence when Stephen C. Meyer’s article about Intelligent Design appeared in the Proceedings of the Biological I-… of Washington (confer Ben Stein’s movie). The publisher was admonished to not attend the Board Meeting. How reasonable — the Kykes
    (derived from Huqaiq, a town where the Prophet Muhammad conquered Jews, says a Hadith).

    Is there no competition between Darwin & Morris the thrid? The Latter’s movie about the Galapagos Iguanas, et al.
    (on The Coral Ridge Hour —
    says that they, the diving salt-spitters, can successfully mate with non-aquatic iguanas. Is this the opposite of Darwin?

  3. Tee Ar says:

    The Precambrian Stratum/ strata, by definition should not contain living things. A Chinese scientist (Paleontologist/ Geologist), part of a group that discovered a 2-inch long fish there-in, said,
    In China, you cannot question the Gov’t but you may question Darwin. In America, you can question the Gov’t but not Darwin
    (-Carl Baugh & friend on TBN-TV).

    Last year, a plant was found in the PreCambrian zone
    (-Hugh Ross’s pal, biochemist Fazale Rana, Dr. of Biochemistry, if I recall).

  4. Tee Ar says:

    Dr. S.C. Meyer appeared on the show, which see (archive) @